Ravenshaw.EDU

sohag sundar nanda · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm Post subject: civil services

hi all
a career in civil services is one of the most sought after in India. decreasing vacancies and the invasion of the corporate culture has had a little effect on the popularity of civil services exam. this service offers unparallelled social status and job satisfaction.
the main aim of this thread is to share the little knowledge i have about this examination. i'm preparing for civil services exam 2006 with maths and physics as my optionals.

1.educational qualification: graduate in any discipline

2.age: min 21 and max 30. relaxation for sc/st/obc/ph/defence

3.attempts: 04(general), 07(obc), no limit(sc/st)

4. scheme of examitation:
this exam consists of three phases
a)prelims:
2 objective type papers. one is general studies, compulsory for all candidates carrying 150 marks. the second is the optional paper to be selected by the candidate from a list of optionals carrying 300 marks. thus total marks in prelims is 450. the marks in prelims are used only to select candidates for the next stage. prelims marks are not counted for final ranking.
b)mains:
candidates clearing the prelims have to appear in the main exam. it consists of descriptive type papers.
1.general studies( 2 papers 300 marks each)
2.optional 1(2 papers 300 marks each)
3.optional 2(2 papers 300 marks each)
4. essay paper(200 marks)
5. indian language paper(qualifying only, not counted for ranking)
6. english(qualifying only, not counted for ranking)
thus the main exam is of 2000 marks. the candidates selected in main are called for a personality test.
c) personality test: it carries 300 marks.
the marks obtained in main exam and personality test are added to get the final ranking.
any qns abt the examination and its preparation are welcome.

pati · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:22 am Post subject:

Thats some interesting and useful info Sohag. Thank you.

I have only one comment, not to discourage the Civil Services aspirants but just what I have found.

sohag sundar nanda · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:25 am Post subject:

pati sir
the problem nowadays is that people want to join the civil services for all the wrong reasons. power n pelf is the first consideration and service comes right at the bottom of the priority list. however there r many officers who care a damn about promotions and position. they just do their work honestly and efficiently. generally they end up in low key posts but that dosnt make any difference to them. wherever they go they make a difference.
now for example if someone joins the service with an ambition of becoming the cabinet secretary some day then certainly he has to act according to the whims n fancies of the politicians. but if his motto is service then all these things hardly make any difference. i remember the words of mr.ashwin vaishnav, the former collector of cuttack( he was the chief guest in a youth red cross function). "in a private firm u get incentives for each initiative but in public service u get blessings of the masses for each initiative".
as for peace and lifestyle r concerned..some people get peace when they r with their family and some when they sweat it out for the masses. some r satisfied when they get a fat salary package and some by looking at the smiles they bring to the faces of others. so its just a difference of perception.

pati · Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:02 am Post subject:

Sohag
Agreed on the "satisfaction" issue. Make sure you remember what you just said about different in perception though. The fault many people do is that they end up marrying up, having a family that is dependent on them and have no time coz they feel (like you said) that slogging it out for the society is what they want to do. That way, the family gets neglected. Note that its not unique to civil services, I have the identical problem being in IT.

The most important aspect is to identify and accept the limitations of what we want and can do.

Next, as for the honest officers, from what I have heard, its pretty tough. I have a few juniors and friends that are fairly in high positions and its pretty big a mental turmoil for them. Being from IIT, they always battle between the right and the appropriate and most of the time, the appropriate one wins.

Vaishnav is a good friend and he is one of those guys that could strike a balance. I know him from his days when he was preparing for civil services and I hear that he did a good job at Cuttack. I didnt realise he was in Cuttack till I saw him on TV once when there was a fire at Bali Yatra.

Anyways, enough of my ranting. I wish you all luck, just try to hold on to the steering of your conscience as long as you can and then, give up and dont get into the evaluation mode. If you try to evaluate what is right or wrong when you have no power to change things, thats when you get pained.

Cheers and good luck.

Pati

Vijay V. Kumar · Joined: 03 Aug 2005 Posts: 199 Location: Hyderabad

All the Best Sohag Smile

It all depends on your attitude and aspirations.
And ofcourse what you think will make you happy.

tomorrow when I become a monk and i'm happy with
it, then there is absolutely no reason for me slog for a
opulent living. Because I will be happy with my ascetic lifestyle.

The only thing we shouldn't have is REGRET. Had I done this, had
I not done this, etc, etc..

Anyway, my father still feels that Civil Services/Politics are best for
me so that I can do something for the soceity.
Let's see whether I can do something for myself or not Laughing

Best Wishes
Vj

pati · Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:58 am Post subject:

Ah, there goes another aspirant Smile

Good luck guys but remember, when you guys get placed, I will keep bugging you reminding and pushing you to do something for the mass Smile

sohag sundar nanda

hi all
continuing with information about civil services...
given below is the list of optionals for prelims examination. candidates have to choose 1 optional for prelims.
1.agriculture
2.animal husbandry and veterinary science
3.botany
4.chemistry
5.civil engineering
6.commerce
7.economics
8.electrical engineering
9.geography
10.geology
11.indian history
12.law
13.mathematics
14.mechanical engineering
15.medical science
16.philosophy
17.physics
18.political science
19.psychology
20.public administration
21.sociology
22.statistics
23.zoology

sohag sundar nanda

hi all
continuing with information about civil services...
given below is the list of optionals for main examination. candidates have to choose 2 optionals for main examination.

1.agriculture
2.animal husbandry and veterinary science
3.anthropology
4.botany
5.chemistry
6.civil engineering
7.commerce and accounting
8.economics
9.electrical engineering
10.geography
11.geology
12.history
13.law
14.management
15.mathematics
16.mechanical engineering
17.medical science
18.philosophy
19.physics
20.political science and international relations
21.psychology
22.public administration
23.sociology
24.statistics
25.zoology
26. literature of one of the following:
a.arabic
b.assamese
c.bengali
d.chinese
e.english
f.french
g.german
h.gujarati
i.hindi
j.kannada
k.kashmiri
l.marathi
m.malayalam
n.oriya
o.pali
p.persian
q.punjabi
r.russian
s.sanskrit
t.sindhi
u.tamil
v.telugu
w.urdu

candidates will not be allowed to offer the following combination of subjects:
1.political science & international relations and public administration
2.commerce & accountancy and management
3.anthropology and sociology
4.mathematics and statistics
5.agriculture and animal husbandry & veterinary science
6.management and public administration
7.of the engineering subjects not more than one.

sohag sundar nanda · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:54 pm Post subject:

hi all
continuing with information about civil services...
there are about 30 services to choose from(depending on your rank and order of preference). a few words abt some of the services
1.indian administrative service: the most prestigious service since the british days. highly desired and coveted, only a select few make it every year. has lost its traditional aura of sanctity under democratic india, nonetheless, retains power, fame and prestige even to day. those opting for it should be prepared to rub shoulders with politicians, media and other pressure groups.

2.indian foreign service: highly glamorous but somewhat low profiled, a decade or two back only the first 10 or 15 in the merit list could bag it. today, the ranking has dipped. the best option for those who dream to live in style and see the world.

3.indian police service: career graph may not be very promising, the power over the masses perhaps compensates that. popular imagery makes the personnel of this service heroes and devils at the same time. bravery and valour is rewarded, both officially and by the common folks. the service is best suited for those who are active and dynamic.

4.indian audit and accounts service, group'a': career graph is highly promising. only state capitals and bigger cities are places of postings. perhaps, the best in terms of perks and facilities. at times, even ministers and departmental heads fear them, when it comes to auditing their real task.

5.indian customs and central excise service, group'a': wield enormous clout over matters relating to exports and imports.

6.indian revenue service group'a': income tax officers belong to this cadre. wield enormous clout over matters relating to taxation, highly feared by the business community.

7.indian railway traffic service group'a': this is the service for those yearning to lead a less hectic life than those from other prestigious services. posting is at bigger cities and life is generally comfortable. prioritywise, they are at top amongst the various railway jobs.

8.indian information service(junior grade), group 'a': the job entails maintaining channels of communication between media and government, espousing government's point of view abroad.

9.indian p&t accounts & finance service group'a'

10.indian defence accounts service group'a'

11.indian ordnance factories service group 'a'

12.indian postal service group 'a'

13.indian civil accounts service group 'a'

14.indian railway accounts service group'a'

15.indian railway personnel service group'a'

16.posts of asst. security officer group 'a' in railway protection force

17.indian defence estates service group 'a'

18.posts of asst.commandant, group'a' in central industrial security force

19.customs appraisers service group 'b': more glamorous than some of the group'a' services perhaps because of the money involved

20.delhi & andaman & nicobar islands police service group 'b': this service has of late grown into prominence. perhaps in delhi even a group'b' police officer is quite powerful. this group'b' service outranks some of the group'a' services in preference. not without a reason.

21.central secretarial service group'b'

22.railway board secretarial service group'b'

23.armed forces headquarters civil services group'b'

24.delhi & andaman & nicobar islands civil service group 'b'

25.posts of dsp in cbi group'b'

26.pondicherry civil service group 'b'

27.pondicherry police servic group 'b'

sohag sundar nanda

hi all
continuing with information about civil services...
general studies is a compulsory paper in the civil services examination.the syllabus for GS prelims is:

general science:
qns on general science will cover general appreciation and understanding of science including matters of everyday observation and experience, as may be expected of a well educated person who has not made a special study of any particular scientific discipline.

current events of national and international importance:
in current events knowledge of significant national and international events will be tested.

history of india and indian national movement:
in history of india emphasis will be on broad general understanding of the subject in its social, economic and political aspects. qns on indian national movement will relate to the nature and character of the nineteenth century resurgence, growth of nationalism and attainment of independence.

indian and world geography:
in geography emphasis will be on geography of india. qns on geography of india will relate to physical, social and economic geography of the country, including the main features of indian agriculture and natural resources.

indian polity and economy:
qns on indian polity and economy will test knowledge of the country's political system and constitution of india, panchayati raj, social systems and economic development in india.

general mental ability:
in general mental ability candidates will be tested on resoning and analytical abilities.

sohag sundar nanda

hi all
continuing with information on civil services....
the main xamis intended to assess the overall intellectual traits and depth of understanding of candidates rather than merely the range of their information and memory.
General Studies:
PAPER-1
a) history of modern India and Indian culture:
the history of modern india will cover history of the country frm abt the middle of 19th century and would also include qns on important personalities who shaped the freedom movement and social reforms. the part relating to indian culture will cover all aspecs of indian culture from the ancient to modern times.
b)geography of india: in this part, qns will be on the physical, economic and social geography of india.
c) indian polity: this part will include qns on constitution of india, political system and related matters.
d) current national issues and topics of social relevance:
this part is intended to test the candidates awareness of current national issues and topics of social relevance in the present day india such as the following:
demography and human resource and related issues. behavioural and social issues and social welfare problems, such as a child labour, gender equality, adult literacy, rehabilitation of the handicapped and other deprived segments of the society, drug abuse, public health etc..
law enforcement issues, human rights, corruption in public life, communal harmony etc. internal security and related issues.
environmental issues, ecological preservation, conservation of natural resources and national heritage.
the role of national institutions their relevance and need for change.

Paper-2
a)india and the world: the part is intended to test candidates awareness of indias relationship with the world in various spheres such as the following- foreigh affairs, xternal security and related matters, nuclear policy, indians abroad.
b)indian economy- in this part, qns will be on the planning and economic development in india, economic and trade issues, foreign trade, the role and functions of IMF world bank, WTO etc
c)international affairs & institutions: this part will include qns on important events in world affairs and on international institutions.
d) development in the field of science and technology, communitications and space- in this part, qns will test the candidates awareness of the developments in the field of science & technology, communications and space and also basic idea of computers.
e) statistical analysis graphs and diagrams: this part will include xercises to test the candidates ability to draw common sense conclusions from information presented in statistical, graphical or diagrammatical form and to point out deficiencies, limitations or inconsistencies therein.

papun007 · Joined: 03 Sep 2005 Posts: 9 Location: bhubaneswar

Well,i just read some of the posts & it was good to see the verbal duel between pati sir & Sohag bhai.As far as my knowledge goes,the satisfaction a civil servant gets from his job can't be compared to the fat pay package of the Corporate world.I would just like to quote a friend from IIM,Calcutta "I will take IAS with any cadre
with 20000 per month as compared to Mckinsey giving me 12 lac per
annum".Yes,the paypackage is much lower but then the perquisites &post retirement benefits make up for the monetary loss.The main thing is satisfaction & as sohag bhai said when motto is service then all these things hardly make any difference.Honesty is rare in buraucracy but then its because bureaucracy gets more exposure.The general perception about non-existence of corruption in private sector is wrong.The integrity of some of the top businessmen is definitely under the scanner.For these canny businessmen ethics do take a backseat when it comes to profits.The relationship between the corporate world & Bureaucracy is like that of the relationship between the butcher and the meat connoisseur.Why to blame the butcher alone?The enoromous power that is vested in the hands of a Collector can't be compared to a so-called plum post in a MNC.Pati sir has remarked that a civil servant can't lead a decent lifestyle.Idon't know what his definition of decent lifestyle is but my little knowledge of economics says that Rs25000 in some obscure district is much better than some 50000 rupees in a Metro.Life is not a bed of roses;there will be some thorns definitely.Politicians are thorns & how you get them out of your way depends on how well you have studied your Public Administration.All these topics are taught during the compulsory foundation course in LBSNAA.
Kiran Mahsuar
B.Com(Hons.)2nd Yr.

pati · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject:

kiran
appreciate your post. sadly, you are missing a point here and reading some non-existent meaning into the spirit of the discussion.

i do not compare the 2 professions. to each his own. there is no way or need to justify what one prefers to do with his life and career.

life is not about absolutes, its about relative terms and in often cases, about statistics. when an indian is visualised in the US, he is dark where as the same guy in nigeria would be fair. its all about statistics.

i agree with your point that the one that becomes a civil servant is not corrupt from the beginning. however, the system is such that things gets pushed a bit and its often very tough to maintain one's integrity without undertaking substantial risks and undergoing fair deal of pressure. thats why its all the more important that young people that have alternate choices and are honest at heart should go in for this profession. the fact that they have alternatives would tend to mean that they are more confident of themselves and their options ... thus the chances of them bowing down to pressure is lesser.

now, as for your example and quote of the IIM guy, i ve nothing much to say. there are people that complete a course at IIT and go for civil services (note, when i ask them why they had to slog 4 years if they needed to get into civils anyways and the response usually is "we wanted to have a security just in case we didnt make it into civils") and i ve enough of my close friends, juniors and associates that i interact on a very personal front to understand and appreciate the motivations, frustation, sense of power and what not.

to end this post (and possible in lines of your quoting your friend), i ve a junior of mine, an IAS of 9 years that quit it to take up a programming job. there is another (i know him from biz association) that has quit after some 20 + years as an IAS and now is a consultant. there are people from the IIM that have started NGOs and doing stuff that even a simple graduate wouldnt want to do. and then there is this senior of mine, IIT --> IIM backdrop, after spending 12 years in fairly key positions in the petroleum industry, joined a firm as the country manager in india when he got to see the engineers working on real research and now is back to engineering. and then there is this senior of mine, after 12 years in the industry, he is now starting a music band in the US and then there is another that spent 16 years in the industry and now wishes to retire and sit at home to teach his kids (he wants to take the kids off formal education and teach them at home and was visiting us recently to find out if we were willing to fund his research).

trust me, i have seen some real extremes and none of those mean anything to justify a conclusion of sorts. i respect how they feel, what they wish to do and move on with what i feel and wish to do ...

so, its not about what is good or bad, its about what one wants and wishes and is capable of.

cheers
pati

papun007 · Joined: 03 Sep 2005 Posts: 9 Location: bhubaneswar

I really appreciate the views of pati sir but i would like to add that my intention was to show the not so rosy side of the corporate world.The debate is worthless as ultimately it all depends on the individual.I would like to add a few more names to the endless list of extermists who have dared to detest a cushy life & venture out on their own.Vardan kabra of IIM,Ahmedabad dropped out of the placement process to start Fountainhead group of schools.Abhishek Thakore of IIM,Bangalore declined an offer from Deutsche Bank to be with his NGO"Blue Ribbons" that he had started during his college days.What really saddens me is the dwindling number of civil services aspirants from Ravenshaw.It once used to be a haven for aspiring civil servants & it had the reputation of churning out IAS officers by dozen.It has definitely lost its standing & quite amazingly inspite of the MBA Buzz &all the efforts by IMS,TIME etc.the number of Ravenshavians in IIMs is virtually nil.Almost 80% of the Commerce graduates from Ravenshaw are appearing for the CAT but the conversion rate is dissappointing.Every morning as i enter the college gates i come across these young undergrads chatting endlessly about CAT,XAT,RC,VA etc. that any passerby would find difficult to understand.Given a choice these youngsters would slog it out at some obscure B-School but won't even give a thought to Civil Services as a career option.Can anyone explain me the reason for such a transformation in the mindset of the Gennext?
Kiran Mahasuar
B.Com(Acct.Hons.)2nd Yr.
BA(IGNOU) 1st yr

pati · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:46 am Post subject:

kiran
on a different thread some day, i will discuss the large number of strong negatives of the corporate world.

being an insider, i know and experience how life is. well, to be correct, life ceases to exist the way one should live life. there is always a struggle for more, and more, and some more. everyone is trying to climb up the corporate ladder"s", a full ladder at a time. gone are the days when they would say "2 steps at a time.

anyways, i see your concern about the fall in numbers of IAS aspirants. the same question used to worry me when a lot of my classmates were focusing on preparing for REC and not IIT. its only years after, when i started a chain of entrance coaching institutes, that i realised the reason. the basis is what we call as "hope" and "chances". if the chances of feasibility of something becomes feeble in the mind of the masses, that avenue is less attempted and the focus moves to the next lucarative option.

i have always maintained that with a little structured effort and some hand holding, the oriyas are highly potential for most career options out there.

someday, oneday ... out there in the future someone should focus on this and do stuff to move the youth of the state forward.

cheers
pati